A tale of generational and social conflict set in 19th century Russia, this work depicts a tragic love story and the tale of a country torn between its past and future. Enjoy the characters: naive Arkady, the Nihilist Bazarov, the ardent father and traditionalist Uncle. All combine to create and entertaining look at change and its impact.
Posts due by August 14
Hi everybody! I have really enjoyed the book Fathers and Sons. So far I think it's the best that I have read all summer. I enjoy reading about the generational gap between father and son because I feel as though I can relate to Arkady's problem of wanting to keep the close relationship with his father while at the same time trying to impress his friend. It is hard to embrace the old while trying to stay up to date with the new ideas of the time. Fathers and Sons has made the most sense to me, and I can personally relate to it. It was harder for me to personally connect with the stories in the other summer reading books.
ReplyDelete@OMcHugh
ReplyDeleteI agree, this has been the most enjoyable read of the summer so far. The flow of the book has been easy to follow and I enjoy the background chapters on characters such as Pavel Petrovich, who in my opinion is the most frustrating character. I also can relate to the pressure of wanting to impress your friends by the accomplishments of your family. I have perceived that Arkady also wants to prove to Bazarov that he is independent and follows the new ways just like Bazarov, who always speaks his mind.
Hello! I would like to point out the interesting and surprising similarities between Pavel Petrovich and Bazarov. Although their opinions on almost given subject are completely different, they have a personality that is almost identical. From the moment they met they took an instant dislike towards each other due to the strong opinions they each held. Pavel Petrovich was extremely set in his old ways while Bazarov was set in the new ways. Neither would budge from their views and was quick to defend their argument if challenged in the least. They have a fierce belief in what is right and what is wrong in the sense of the way Russia should be ruled. Pavel and Bazarov are very different on the outside but when more closely examined they have a similar personality; they will fight for what they believe.
ReplyDelete@ OMcHugh and Lucy S.
ReplyDeleteFathers and Sons was definately my favorite book I have read so far this summer. Arkady tries hard to have a good relationship with his father and I understand how difficult that can sometimes be. I agree with Owen in the sense that I can really connect with this book.
I really like the separate stories of each character and how they entwined together to create the whole story. The different characters were the best part of the story, Arkady being my favorite and the one I can most relate to.
I did notice a depressing feel to the book as you follow Bazarov's story and his lack of belief in anything. It would be hard to live such an empty life of feeling and emotion.
@VGlick
ReplyDeleteHello again! I'm not quite finished with the book but have to say Nikolai Petrovich has been my favorite character so far. It has been fascinating to see him try to relate to his son by reading books such as Stoffund Kraft while he internally struggled with the ideas his son and Bazarov had been sharing. He feels everything he has done in the past to reach out to his son has been a waste. One of my favorite scenes was where Nikolai is reminiscing about his wife and is interrupted by his mistress, Fenechka. In this scene you see the loving husband Nikolai used to be. Nikolai later says he can never compare the Fenechka and his late wife. This isn't the first time you see Nikolai doubt where his life has taken him. Earlier in the book he is unsure of the change in his farm system and the affects it has made on his lifestyle. Nikolai Petrovich is a father who simply wants to connect with his son and is willing to listen to his point of view, even if he doesn't agree.
@Lucy S.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your point as to the fact that Evgeny and Pavel Petrovich have almost the same structure in that they are both steadfast in their opposite ends of the spectrum views. They also both find themselves in contradiction of their opinions later in the novel, as Evgeny ends up professing his love for Odintsova, and Pavel, after the duel, seemingly puts aside his differences with Evgeny. I also thought that Nikolai and Arkady are similarly structured in that they are stuck in the middle of a conflict between people they hold close relationships with (Nikolai is between the Pavel-Evgeny/Arkady conflict, and Arkady between the Evgeny-Pavel conflict) and waver in their viewpoints throughout the book, never fully choosing one side or the other. I found that these pairings of characters allowed for a very interesting story. What does everyone else think about Turgenev's use of this method?
One aspect of the work that I did not understand (or maybe more so that I wonder if it was completely necessary) was the complete adoration bestowed on Evgeny by his parents, as shown when his father asks Arkady his opinion of his son and then admits " 'I simply worship my son... but I do not dare show my feelings in his presence, because he doesn't like that kind of thing... but you can't apply ordinary rules to people like him, can you?' " (123). He goes on to state that '"my one ambition is that in time the following words may appear on his biography: "The son of a simple regimental doctor, who, however, early recognized his ability and spared nothing to ensure his education...'" (124). I feel this complete adoration to be odd in the fact that Evgeny hardly visits his family nor shows any real emotion towards them. I believe that Turgenev wanted to show just how special Evgeny was, but the complete worship he receives from his parents takes it to the point that it seems unrealistic to me. Why does Turgenev show the relationship between Evgeny and his parents this way?
ReplyDelete@OMcHugh
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the character and dialogue driven plot in Fathers and Sons makes it a much easier to relate to and follow the storyline. Turgenev goes into great detail on giving us backstories as well as lengthy dialogues concerning his relatively small cast of characters. I think A Tale of Two Cities is my favorite of the books so far due to its combination of characters and major events, with Fathers and Sons following close behind.
Dialogue is the key device in this novel. The most entertaining moments in the novel come from heated dialogues between the characters that advances the plot and shows the emotion and complexity within each character. My favorite dialogue came between Arkady and Bazarov, when, towards the end of the book, they decide to part ways once and for all. This back-and-forth conversation reveals the true relationship these characters have, and especially with Bazarov showing his honest opinion of Arkady:
" 'We're saying goodbye forever and you know it yourself... You're not made for the bitter, sour-tasting, rootless life of people like me. You haven't got the daring, you haven't got the anger, all you've got is youthful courage and youthful fervour - and that's not enough for what I've got to do. Aristos like you'll never go beyond noble humility or noble indignation and that's all nonsense...You're a marvelous fellow, but you're still just a little softy liberal gent - ey volatoo, as my parent would say.'
'You're saying goodbye to me for ever, Evgeny,' said Arkady sadly, 'and you've got no other words for me?'
Bazarov scratched the back of his neck.
'I've got other words, Arkady, only I won't say them, because it'd be romanticism - it'd mean going all syrupy.' "
This was truly a great dialogue, and shows the skill the Turgenev has at using the device to craft a well-developed plot without using any major events as the backdrop and/or catalyst for his story. Dialogue was important to Fathers and Sons because it elevated what could have been just any other story into the classic that it remains today. It allowed me to fully enjoy the work and be fully captivated by each and every page.
That passage was from pages 180-181
ReplyDeleteThe love between parents and their children is one of the most beautiful things about humanity. Parents see the best of themselves in their children, and look forward to their bright future. When parents lose a child, it is a heartbreaking event that forever affects their lives. No parent wants to outlive any their children, because it takes away that hope of a great future for that child. I have a somewhat personal connection to that experience, as one of my uncles died when he was ten of leukemia. It made an impact and devastated his parents and his siblings. He holds a special place in their hearts to this day.
ReplyDeleteLikewise, the love that Evgeny's parents showed for him (however extreme it may have been) was unquestionable. They see him dying of an infection, but refuse to believe it, as his father insists its a simple cold. Evgeny rebukes him, saying " 'That's no sort of talk for a doctor. There are all the signs of infection and you know it.' " (189.) When Evgeny does die, his parents are in a complete state of sorrow. At the end of the novel, they are described as visiting his grave and "supporting each other, they approach with a heavy step; they go up to the railing and fall down on their knees and cry long and bitterly... again they pray and cannot make themselves leave this place where it seems to them they are closer to their son and to their memories of him..." (201).
The pain that parents feel upon the death of their child is a universal one. We can only hope that their pain be eased.
My favorite passage from the book shows one of Evgeny's many witty quotes. This one comes as he lay on his deathbed, in conversation with his father:
ReplyDelete" 'Glory be!' he repeated over and over. 'The crisis has come... the crisis has gone.'
'Just imagine it,' murmured Bazarov 'what a word can mean! You've found it, said it, the word 'crisis' - and you're happy! It's astonishing how a man can still believe in words. If you tell someone, for example, he's a fool and you don't beat him, he'll be bitterly disappointed. Call him clever but don't give him any money and he'll be perfectly satisfied.' " (192).
This passage is important because it shows that Bazarov, even in his last hour, still has the depth of mind to find such a clever statement to respond to his father's hopes that he will recover. Being one of the last things he says to his father, he stays true to his character and slyly turns his partner in conversation's words against him, always trying to take the upper hand in the debate. I found that when I went back over the quote again (at first read I didn't understand it), it made complete and total sense in a way that suits me perfectly. I enjoyed this book mainly because of this and other pieces of witty dialogue. This was the funniest quote of the novel, in my mind, and it is part of what made Evgeny my favorite character, with all his complexity and opinions.
All in all, I enjoyed Fathers and Sons. I liked that it allowed us to understand the characters because Turgenev went so deep into giving backstories and allowing their emotions and opinions to come through in the abundance of (sometimes heated) dialogues. I also liked that it was an evenly paced book, and that important information about characters were revealed at almost consistent intervals throughout the novel, keeping the reader engaged without placing too many details close together as to possibly confuse the reader or cause the reader to overlook them. I didn't dislike much, however I found that aside from Evgeny and Anna Odintsova there weren't as many memorable characters as there could have been with the use of so much detail. Does anybody agree?
ReplyDeleteThe dialogue in Fathers and Sons is important. In 1862, the idea of a nihilist was crazy. Turgenev uses dialogue with Bazarov to display his beliefs. There are intense debates between characters as they defend what they believe in.
ReplyDelete@thomasowen
I agree that the heated dialogues are some of the most interesting parts of the book. The plot comes through the characters and what they say where as in The Tale of Two Cities, most of the story was from imagery and descriptions.
“ ’Yes,’ he [Pavel] declared without looking at anyone, ‘it’s a great misfortune to have spent five years or so on the country far removed from great minds! In a flash you become a perfect fool. You try not to forget what you’ve been taught and then – just like that! – it turns out everything you’ve been taught is nonsense and you’re told sensible people don’t concern themselves with such rubbish any more and that you’re, so to speak, old hat. What’s to be done! Evidently the young are more intelligent than we are, that’s a fact’” (27).
ReplyDeleteThis passage is critical in supporting the main theme of the book – the generational conflict between the father’s and son’s representatives. (Nikolai/Pavel vs. Arkady/Bazarov). It further shows how much the Petrovitch brothers have missed out while remaining secluded in Marino. Little do they know what has been going on in the outside world and little do they know what the term “nihilism” means.
As soon as Pavel discovers that Bazarov is a nihilist, they become outright enemies. They do not agree on anything and always contradict each other. Their extreme hatred for each other leads to a desire to kill one another.
Bazarov represents Turgenev’s newly coined term “nihilism,” whereas the stark opposite of Bazarov, Pavel Petrovitch, represents Romanticism. Neither one of them will give up on what they believe in; thus, creating a conflict between the old and new generation.
@thomas owen
ReplyDeleteI would also say that A Tale of Two Cities has been my favorite of the books so far, with Fathers and Son trailing only marginally. The thing I find different about the two books are the number of stories intertwined throughout the text. Though Fathers and Sons has fewer storylines, I still love the basic plot of a father and son and the barrier between generations, as I feel it is easier for us to relate to such a topic. Still, I cannot say I enjoyed this book as much as A Tale of Two Cities.
Also, in your later post you suggested that there weren't as many memorable characters as there might be in other books, and again I can agree with you in this matter. Though a lot of ideas were thrown out by many characters, I do not feel as if each had an actual personality.
I just wanted to share with you all a thought I had while reading this book. Though I enjoyed it, Fathers and Sons really showed me the difference in languages throughout the world. In reading this book, I found it more difficult to keep names and characters straight in my mind. Though I was able to do so, it was the first time remembering such things has actually been a task (one that required a deeper focus). I found it interesting to read a book that's been translated and have to think about another language that is very different from our own.
ReplyDeleteHello all! I would like to start off to say I enjoyed this book. I like learning about Russian culture and Turgenev gave us some insight into mid-19th century Russian culture in Fathers and Sons. Based on how quickly this book went and how many pages total, I think Fathers and Sons is my favorite of the summer. At some points in the book, such as the downtime when the friends would hang around a certain estate, it was a tad slow, but I found that Turgenev mastered the balance between being over detailed and going on about things the reader knows nothing about.
ReplyDeleteThat being said there is not much I have unanswered about Fathers and Sons, mostly thanks to the introduction and detailed conclusion. I am curious though about what made Bazarov so appealing to all people, from the youthful Arkady to the aristocratic Madame Odintsova to Bazarov’s own parents. He had desirable traits but also a lot of shortcomings, such as his void emotional state. With all this you would think Bazarov would be a good companion for a small group of people, and not be sought after by these three distinct classes of people. I for one tended to side with Pavel Petrovich in most arguments at Arkady’s home, as Pavel Petrovich had time and age as aids for his political views, even if they were a tad flawed. Bazarov on the other hand seemed disgruntled and rebellious from the minute he got in Arkady’s carriage on the first day.
ReplyDeleteI also really enjoyed reading "Fathers and Sons." Although "Fathers and Sons" was not as much of a book of suspense and mystery like "A Tale of Two Cities," I enjoyed it more. I liked how the plot was truly character driven, and how the whole book focused on how the characters grow, change, and feel over a rather short period of time. I found this book very easy to relate to. It shows the struggle that children have as they grow up, to still be respectful and loving towards their parents, but as they want to pull away to appear better in their friends eyes.
ReplyDeleteMy only complaint is that, at times, the book seemed to move slowly. However, the plot would pick up very quickly, and the book would become even more engrossing.
Overall, I think that "Fathers and Sons" is an amazing book. It truly is a story of how life often really is, with all its conflicts, humor, lessons, and love.
Hey everyone! I just finished Fathers and Sons last night, and I thought this book was very enjoyable. The book moved at a quick and entertaining pace, unlike A Tale of Two Cities, which had an uneventful first half.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, I think that Dickens's work had more memorable characters. I completely agree with Megan R; I also found it difficult to grasp each person's personality. Frankly, the only people in the book I actually liked were Basarov's parents and Mitya the baby.
Also, I agree with anyone above who thought the characters were relatable. Arkady's transitions from son and boy, to man and husband were something that anyone who has passed from childhood can understand.
I really enjoyed reading Fathers and Sons. The dialogues, especially between Pavel Petrovich and Bazarov, kept me interested and always had me wondering what would happen next. I enjoyed reading about the conflict between generations, and I also agree with everyone who thought the characters were easier to relate to than those in the other books we have read this summer. The way the characters were presented made it really easy to connect to their many emotions and experiences. In addition, I really liked Turgenev’s style of writing. The book was very clear and easy to understand, which made the book easier to read. I loved how he described each character in detail before they became too involved in the book, allowing the reader to get a feel for the character’s appearance, feelings, and background.
ReplyDeleteMy only complaint about this book has to do with the lack of major plot events. Although the dialogues between characters were fascinating and were able to keep my interest, I felt as if there was not enough action going on in the book. As a result, I think at some points the story moved along rather slowly.
Dialogue is certainly one of the most important literary devices utilized in Fathers and Sons. The opinionated and passionate discussions, especially between Arkady/Bazarov and Pavel Petrovich, provide the heart of the story. One of my favorite dialogues is between Arkady and Bazarov. It is an example of the internal conflict Arkady is continually faced with, as well as Bazarov’s strong opposition to Pavel’s beliefs. This conversation reveals how Arkady needs to support and respect his family, while at the same time he wants to impress his friend Bazarov:
ReplyDelete“ ‘Is he [Pavel] always like that?’ Bazarov asked Arkady cold-bloodedly as soon as the door had closed behind the two brothers.
‘Listen, Evgeny, you were too harsh with him,’ said Arkady. ‘You offended him.’
‘As if I’m going to play along with these provincial aristocrats! After all, it’s just a matter of their self-esteem, their acting like society lions, their being such dandies! Well, he should’ve kept up his career in St Petersburg if that’s what he likes…Anyhow, to hell with him! I found a fairly rare example of the water beetle Dytiscus marginatus. Do you know it? I’ll show it to you.’
‘I promised I’d tell you his story…’ Arkady began
‘The story of the beetle?’
‘That’s enough, Evgeny! No, my uncle’s story. You’ll see he’s not the sort of man you imagine he is. He deserves pity rather than derision.’ “
Dialogues like this are important because it is what gives this book its meaning. They also give the reader an even greater knowledge of the opinions and emotions of each character.
@thomasowen
ReplyDeleteI agree with your observation that the characters in Fathers and Sons were not as intriguing as they could have been, given the amount of detail. I think this may be because, as I have already stated in a previous post, there are not many considerable and noteworthy events in the novel, aside from the lengthy and fiery dialogue. Therefore, it was harder to appreciate each single character and their personalities.
Although I do not have many questions about this book, I do have one concerning Bazarov and Pavel Petrovich: Why would the author have Bazarov, the main character, die in the end of the novel, rather than Pavel? Or, simply, how did Pavel not die? As we know, Bazarov clearly won their duel, and he severely injured Pavel by shooting him in the thigh. As Turgenev put it, “he [Pavel] was dead as a dodo.” However, we later find out that Pavel recovers, and instead, Bazarov is the one who dies, due to a serious infection. Why do you think Turgenev decided to have Bazarov, the protagonist and a doctor, fall ill and die at the end of the book? Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI like how the book summarized and gave us a look into the characters’ lives at the end, but I didn’t like how Turgenev addressed the reader directly and to himself directly. Normally this wouldn’t be a problem if the author was a character in the story, but since the author was never characterized I found it ruined some of the collaboration of the story for me. At times I felt this was really happening in front of me but I soon came to my senses when addressed directly by Turgenev. Other than that Turgenev did a masterful job in relating the characters, I felt I knew each of them personally, from emotional and guilt ridden Nikolai to the stoic Bazarov. This is the chief literary device in Fathers and Sons. Characterization could not be more engrossing. The appeal of Fathers and Sons is the stark contrast of characters, there seems to be poles of each emotion present in at least one person. And not just on that level, Turgenev goes deeper and creates rifts between political ties, such as the obvious Pavel and Bazarov, and sends deeper constrictions between political statuses, aristocrat versus servant class. Once this dawned on me I really started to appreciate Turgenev’s writing as the book went on, and I’m actually going to pick up some of his other work when I get a free moment.
ReplyDeleteThe dialogue from my second post was from page 27
ReplyDelete@Duke Roach
ReplyDeleteI actually really enjoyed Turgenev's interjections of his opinions throughout the story. I thought it made his story seem more personal, as if he either knew the characters or based himself on one or more of the characters. I also think it served as a way of bringing the reader back to reality. With all of the intense dialogue, I found Turgenev's (often) humorous and carefree interjections a welcome relief.
One passage that I thought is significant to Bazarov's description is found on page 196. "As extreme unction was being administered, when the consecrated oil touched his breast, one of his eyes opened and it seemed that at the sight of the priest in his vestments, the smoking censer and the candle before the icon something like a look of horror was momentarily reflected in his deathly features." This passage explains to the reader that even in his last minutes, Bazarov still rejects Christianity and confirms his nihilistic principles.
ReplyDeleteWhen Arkady came home and reveled in spending time with his father, this reminds me of how probably about half of us feel when we see our parents after a long time. On the other hand, how Bazarov dreaded spending time with his parents, I think portrays the other half of us Americans. I for one enjoy spending time with my parents so I felt myself connecting with Arkady throughout the book. Because I felt he was similar to me, I couldn’t grasp his attachment to Bazarov, who constantly dissed Arkady’s dad and uncle. In some ways I found myself connected to Bazarov, but only minutely. Sometimes parents can be a bit much, but I think Bazarov’s actions toward his parents were inappropriate. His mom was overbearing, like most moms, but he lashed out too fiercely. I was disappointed in everyone at these times, mostly at Bazarov, but also I couldn’t believe his parents took his rudeness lying down. My parents would not tolerate that!
ReplyDelete@CMea
ReplyDeleteI liked that sense of it, except I realized Turgenev was never a friend or a character in the story, but this was only a minor detail, i thoroughly enjoyed Fathers and Sons!
Dialogue is a critical literary device in this book. Though the setting, conflict, characterization, and imagery are essential to the novel, it was the dialogue that shapes and moves the plot, which is about resolving the generational and social conflict. The dialogue is what makes this novel interesting and entertaining.
ReplyDeleteNot only does Turgenev bring a dynamic conversation among the characters, but also does he project their thoughts. For example, in Chapter 5, Turgenev wrote down what Bazarov thought about Marino: “ ‘Hey,’ he [Bazarov] thought, looking round him, ‘this quaint little place ain’t up to much!’ “ (19). Sometimes, other authors only describe the character’s facial expression rather than their deep-seated emotions.
I often found myself laughing, and once in awhile depressed, because of the character’s conversations or thoughts. Turgenev did a good job on engaging the reader to the dialogue. One of my favorite dialogues would have to be between Bazarov and Odintsova, when he confessed his love to her. This dialogue is also important because from here on, Bazarov had changed:
“ ‘…I’m sure that your – how can I put it? – your tenseness, your self-control will vanish eventually, won’t it?’ [Odintsova]
‘So you’ve noticed my self-control, my – as you put it – tenseness?’ [Bazarov]
‘Yes’
Bazarov stood up and went to the window.
‘And would you like to know the cause of this self-control, would you like to know what is occurring inside me?’
‘Yes,’ repeated Odintsova with a certain apprehension that was as yet unclear to her.
‘And you won’t be angry?’
‘No.’
‘No?’ Bazarov stood with his back to her. ‘Then you should know that I love you, stupidly, madly . . . So now you’ve got what you wanted’ “ (102-103).
What is your favorite dialogue?
@OMcHugh
ReplyDeleteI can’t agree more about Arkady’s social predicament you talked about in your first comment! Since Arkady is trying to be friends with both people at the same time in the same place, friction is bound to ensue, especially if the people he is trying to please are so different! The gap between Bazarov and Nikolai Petrovich is not as noticeable as the Bazarov Pavel gap, but I think Arkady was bound to upset one of them, if not both throughout interaction. That’s the cool part about this book there are so many conflicting things happening at once!
People of different generations do things differently; for instance, my parents and I. First of all, my parents were born and raised in the Philippines. Filipinos are taught to be respectful to their elders at all times. One of the ways to show respect to elders is a greeting called “Mano.” Mano is taking the elder person’s hand and placing the hand up to your forehead. There are also several other ways of showing respect to elders, such as calling an older Filipino “Po” and addressing an older sibling, cousin, or family friend “kuya” (if male) and “ate” (if female). Back then, these customs were inherent and ought to be practiced by every Filipino whether at home or abroad. But nowadays, quite a few Filipinos and Filipino-Americans aren’t accustomed to “Mano,” or calling someone “Po,” “kuya,” or “ate.” A high-five replaces “Mano”; “Yeah” replaces “Po”; “Hey Dude!” replaces “Kuya” and “Ate.” All of these changes give rise to conflicts between parents (the old-school) and children (the new school).
ReplyDeleteAside from cultural differences between generations, there are also technological differences. My parents did not have computers/laptops, Microsoft Word, etc. My mother would always say how lucky our generation is to have such technology available at our fingertips because she would always walk to the library and write out homework assignments, essays, etc.
They used maps; we use a GPS. They had a dial-up TV in black and white; we have remote- controlled HD flat screen TV’s. They used a CD player; we use an iPod. They write letters; we text. These are just some of the many differences between generations of old and new folks. Not to mention the huge amount of money spent to buy this technology, the anxiety felt by the parents when we spent limitless time on Facebook, selectiveness deafness we feigned while listening to iPods – and these again give rise to conflict like the generation conflict in Fathers and Sons: Nikolai and Pavel representing the old generation (Romanticism) and Arkady and Bazarov representing the new middle class (Nihilism).
I really enjoyed this book. It was one of my favorite books this summer. One thing I liked the most was Turgenev’s style of writing. While Dickens in “A Tale of Two Cities” employs flowery words and phrases, lengthy similes and metaphors, and imaginable descriptive imagery, Turgenev in “Fathers and Sons” feeds the readers directly with a simple, discrete, narrative and presents elaborate background information about his fictional characters. For instance, early in the first chapter, Turgenev begins the story with a dialogue between Nikolai and Peter while waiting for the arrival of Arkady and the unexpected Bazarov:
ReplyDelete“ ‘Nothing to be seen, sah,’ [Peter]
‘Nothing to be seen?’ the landowner repeated. [Nikolai]
‘The landowner sighed and sat down on a bench. We will acquaint the reader with him while he sits there, tucking his feet in beneath him and looking thoughtfully around’ “ (1).
And then, he suddenly breaks up the dialogue in order to feed the readers with the past and present life of Nikolai. Thus, the readers have better insight on the life of one of the most dynamic characters in the story.
Another example of a dialogue in which Turgenev uses his technique of interrupting the narrative in order to go into the background of one of the main characters is in Chapter 6:
“ ‘ I promised I’d tell you his story . . .’ Arkady began.
‘ The story of the beetle?’ [Bazarov]
‘That’s enough, Evgeny! No, my uncle’s story. You’ll see he’s not the sort of man you imagine he is. He deserves pity rather than derision.’
‘I don’t doubt. But why’re you so bothered about him?’
‘One ought to be just, Evgeny.’
‘Why should that follow?’
‘No, listen.’
And Arkady told him his uncle’s story. The reader will find it in the next chapter” (27-28).
This traditional nineteenth-century writing style of Turgenev is literally synonymous to watching a play or a movie and the characters freeze in the background. And then, the narrator dramatically walks onto the stage or scene and gives us biographic insights on the characters, just as, similar to that of Bishop Ireton’s play “Our Town.”
It is a tough choice as to who to pick as my favorite character. The tragic death of Bazarov touches my heart. And I couldn’t stop asking myself why did the author conclude a supposedly powerful love-story with a very sad ending. In the beginning of the story, I did not like Bazarov because of his nihilistic behavior. I thought of him as a bad influence for Arkady. But as the story continued, the power of love transformed him. When Bazarov died, it was heartbreaking. How I wished that Odintsova’s change of heart after Bazarov’s last breath expired would have brought him back to life. Wouldn’t it be a better ending?
I disliked how Odintsova wasn’t as crazy in love for Bazarov as he was for her. I thought they would have been a perfect couple. When Bazarov laid eyes on Odintsova, he began to change. Love affected with his usual way of thinking. Love has always been non-existent to him, and now, he is madly in love with Odintsova. Bazarov ridiculed Pavel’s life of being dominated by a woman, yet, Bazarov allowed himself to have a similar type of experience with a similar type of woman that of Pavel’s. Bazarov couldn’t live without Odintsova, but Odintsova could. By definition of nihilism, Bazarov is supposed to be a person who is able to live alone. Yet it seems that Odintsova is more nihilist than Bazarov himself. Any thoughts?
One aspect of the story that I found interesting was how Arkady originally had met Odintsova and wanted to get to know her, but ended up getting to know her sister Katya even better. He began to enjoy Katya's friendship without even realizing it.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of the evolution of friendship I had with one of my best friends. Originally, we just had mutual friends, and we would rarely spend time together. Over time, we got to know each other and became good friends. Despite both of us moving to different schools, new friends and activities, and sometimes not even seeing each other for long periods of time, we managed to stay very close. About two years ago, my friend moved across the country to California. However, we still have managed to stay close. If I had been told when I first met this friend how close we would be in a couple years, I wouldn't have believed it. Now, I'm really thankful to have her as a friend and am looking forward to the next time I see her (hopefully soon!).
I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on where Bazarov's nihilism and rather pessimistic attitude comes from. I got the impression that his parents were very religious, traditional and joyous people: the exact opposite of Bazarov. I do believe that he learned about nihilism during his studies in St. Petersburg, but I believe there is something more to Bazarov's negative personality than just nihilism. Bazarov was a character, that, for me, was hard to understand. Does anyone have any ideas on why Bazarov was always so negative?
ReplyDeleteOne literary device that I thought was significant to Fathers and Sons was conflict. There are many different examples of conlflict, both internal and external in this story. One instance of internal conflict is Bazarov and his feelings towards Odintsova. There are many external conflicts that occur, but to name a few; Pavel and Bazarov, the old generation and the new generation, and between fathers and sons. All of these conflicts connect characters and backgrounds to create an exceptional plot.
ReplyDelete" 'He is a nihilist.'
ReplyDelete'What?' asked Nikolai Petrovich, while Pavel Petrovich raised his knife in the air with a piece of butter on the end of the blade and remained motionless.
'He is a nihilist,' repeated Arkady.
'A nihilist,' said Nikolai Petrovich. 'That's from the Latin nihil, nothing, so far as I can judge. Therefore, the word denotes a man who...who doesn't recognize anything?'
'Say, rather, who doesn't respect anything,' added Pavel Petrovich and once more busied himself with the butter.
'Who approaches everything from a critical point of view,' remarked Arkady.
'Isn't that the same thing?'
'Not it's not the same thing. A nihilist is a man who doesn't acknowledge any authorities, who doesn't accept a single principle on faith, no matter how much that principle may be surrounded by respect.'
'And that's a good thing, is it?' interjected Pavel Petrovich.
'It depends on who you are, uncle. It's a good thing for one man and a bad thing for another.' " (pages 22-23)
This passage stood out to me. Arkady explains why Bazarov appears so different to Nikolai and Pavel Petrovich, two very traditional men. I think Arkady also poses an interesting point; how something can be good for one person and bad for another person. I understand both Arkady and Pavel Petrovich's opinions on this issue of nihilism. Arkady is open to new ideas, as many young people are, while Pavel Petrovich is very set in his ways. I think this is what causes the rift between Pavel Petrovich and Bazarov. Neither one of them wants to budge an inch because they are both convinced they are right. However, this passage, especially in retrospect, made me realize that sometimes there isn't a right or a wrong way to think or do something. In the end, Pavel Petrovich's and Bazarov's fates are very similar: they lose the woman they love.
I think this passage was very important to the book for many reasons. I think it very simply almost states the conflict. We see Arkady representing the new and modern, and Pavel Petrovich representing old and traditional. We also see Nikolai Petrovich caught in the middle of things. He wants to appear as if he understands and wants what is new and modern (for Arkady's sake), but he really is a traditional middle-aged man. For me, this passage differentiates the characters and their attitudes toward nihilism and the new. All the characters' pose different opinions and and it causes one to wonder how things will play out, because, as is typical in life, differing opinions often lead to big arguments.
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ReplyDelete“ ‘Katerina Sergeevna,’ he [Arkady] said in a trembling voice, his hands clasped tightly together, ‘I love you eternally and irrevocably and I love no one but you. I wanted to tell you this, discover what your own thoughts were and ask for your hand, because I’m not a rich man and I fell I’m ready to make any kind of sacrifice…Why don’t you say something? Don’t you believe me? Do you think I’m not being serious? But just think of these last few days! Haven’t you become convinced long ago that everything else—you know what I mean—everything, everything else had long ago vanished without trace? Look at me, just say one word to me…I love…I Love you…Believe me now!’
ReplyDeleteKatya turned on Arkady a solemn and bright look and, after a long pause for thought, with hardly a smile, said:
‘Yes.’
Arkady jumped up from the seat.
‘Yes! You’ve said yes, Katerina Sergeevna! What’s the word mean? Is it that I love you and that you believe me…or…or…I daren’t say more…’
‘Yes,’ repeated Katya and this time he understood her. He took hold of her large beautiful hands and, sighing with joy, pressed them to his heart.” (Pages 178-179)
This is one of my favorite passages from Fathers and Sons. In this passage, Arkady confesses his love to Katya. He decides that there is no one else in the world that he could love more, and wants to give his life for her. This is a significant action because he had originally thought he loved Anna Odintsova, who obviously thought more highly of Bazarov. However, once he realized how much he enjoyed being in Katya’s company, he forgot about all of his previous thoughts. Even though he was not sure of Katya’s feelings for him, he did not let that stop him from professing his love for her. As it turns out, she loved Arkady just as much, and she gladly agreed to marry him. Through this action by Arkady we see him break away from his friendship with Bazarov, and instead he proposes to the woman he loves. By doing this, Arkady truly changed his life and the life of Katya forever.
Overall, I really enjoyed this book! There wasn’t anything in particular that I felt the need to criticize. However, I guess I would have preferred a happier ending for Bazarov. It was a bit depressing to read about Bazarov's parents mourning his death. Also, it would have been nice to see Odintsova end up falling in love with Bazarov if he were to have stayed alive. Tragic love stories always leave me unsatisfied, not to mention depressed. However, I do believe that Turgenev used Bazarov’s death to show that without love in your life, you won’t be happy. In any case, despite Bazarov’s tragic ending, it was nice to see that there was some hope and happiness for the other characters—which brings me to my next point.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the hopeful endings that the other characters had. “Can their prayers and their tears be fruitless? Can love, sacred, devoted love, not be all-powerful? Oh, no! No matter how passionate, sinning, rebellious is the heart hidden in the grave, the flowers growing on it look at us serenely with their innocent faces; they speak to us not only of that eternal peace, of that great peace of ‘impassive’ nature; they speak to us also of eternal reconciliation and of life everlasting…” (201). This quote refers to Bazarov’s parents and suggests that maybe their son is living happily in the next life as a result of their prayers and devotion to him. Also, I’m glad that Odintsova married someone and that we are left with hope that maybe she and her spouse will actually fall in love someday.
“Once I had a quarrel with our late mother. She was shouting and didn’t want to hear a thing from me… I finally told her: You can’t understand me. I said: We belong to different generations. She was frightfully offended. But I thought, what can I do about it? It’s a bitter pill but it’s got to be swallowed. So now our turn’s come, and our successors can say to us: You’re not of our generation, you’ve got to swallow your pill” (55).
ReplyDeleteIn this quote, Nikolai explained to his brother, Pavel, a fight he had with their mother. He had told her she wouldn’t be able to understand him since they grew up in different generations. He realized that it was the same situation he was having with his son, Arkady. I think this was a particularly important passage because it reflects an important theme in this book, which is the tension between successive generations. This is one of the reasons why this book was enjoyable for me: I’m sure many people, including myself, can relate to this theme.
The generation and culture in which my parents grew up are different from my own generation and cultural experiences. From a young age, my parents instilled in me the values of the Filipino culture with which they were raised. However, growing up in a different generation than them, not to mention in a different country, has affected who I am today. From time to time, I get into disagreements with my parents, and it’s sometimes hard to get them to understand my point of view because they simply do not understand my viewpoint, which has been shaped by my generation and both American and Filipino cultures. I believe that the children of the next generation will probably have the same issues that we have with our parents and that intergenerational conflict will continue to exist.
I felt like I could not relate to Bazarov at all at first. However, here’s a quote with which I was able to connect: “That aspen over there”, Bazarov began, “reminds me of my childhood. It’s growing at the edge of a hole which is all that remains of a brick barn, and in those days I was sure that that hole and that aspen possessed special magic powers, because I was never bored when I was near them. I didn’t understand then that I wasn’t bored because I was a child. Now I’m grown-up the special magic powers don’t work any more” (125). This quote reflects how people grow up and mature, and their views on life change. Personally, as a child, I had a wild imagination and was somewhat carefree. As I grew older, every year became harder and I experienced more challenges and had to take on new responsibilities. As a result, I started to mature. I began to develop a different outlook on life and grew out of my naive ways of thinking.
ReplyDeleteAs we grow up and mature, everything that may have seemed fun or magical may not necessarily appeal to us in the same way it did in the past. For example, I’m sure most of us have believed in the Tooth Fairy when we were younger. However, when we grew older, we learned that the Tooth Fairy didn’t actually exist. After we realized that, the magical feeling of hope for that fairy to leave us money under our pillows at night disappeared.
@thomasowen, VGlick, SMcShea, Abigaille Baniqued
ReplyDeleteI also think that an important literary device was dialogue. I agree with everyone else's opinions; some of the characters’ conversations made the book very interesting to read. It was especially interesting to read their opinions on different matters. In addition, I felt that we were really able to get to know the characters through their speech. The manner in which people say the things they do can say a lot about their personality. The way some of the characters are described when they are first introduced helped give me a glimpse of what kind of a person they might be. However, their conversations with other people, particularly about their opinions and beliefs, helped give me further insight into their personality.
For example, when Bazarov is first introduced in the book, he is described as this: “Long and thin, with broad temples, a nose flattened at the top and sharp towards the tip, with large greenish eyes and sandy-coloured drooping sideburns, the face was enlivened by a quiet smile and expressed self-assurance and intelligence” (7). This phrase describes his appearance, helping us to imagine what he may look like, and also hints at what kind of personality traits he might possess: intellect and confidence. Later on, he astonishes Nikolai and Pavel Petrovich with his nihilist ideas. He has a debate with Pavel and ends up making him angry. After Pavel leaves, Bazarov’s cold nature starts to show when he speaks to Arkady:
“ ‘Is he always like that?’ Bazarov asked Arkady cold-bloodedly as soon as the door had closed behind the two brothers.
‘Listen, Evgeny, you were too harsh with him,’ said Arkady. ‘You offended him.’
‘As if I’m going to play along with these provincial aristocrats! After all, it’s just a matter of their self-esteem, their acting like society lions, their being such dandies! Well, he should’ve kept up his career in St Petersburg if that’s what he likes… Anyhow, to hell with him! I found a fairly rare example of the water beetle Dytiscus marginatus. Do you know it? I’ll show it to you’ ” (27).
Another example of when he shows his cold personality is when he explained to Arkady that everything depends on feelings. He shows that he indeed is confident when he makes such a bold, let alone rude, statement about Arkady’s uncle right to his friend’s face. He states that Pavel is an idiot as if it is an actual fact, and that to think otherwise would be because of one’s feelings.
“ ‘Aha! Yes, I can see you’re determined to follow in your uncle’s footsteps. How that idiot would be delighted if he heard you now!’
‘What did you call Pavel Petrovich?’
‘I called him what he deserves to be called—an idiot.’
‘But this is intolerable!’ cried Arkady.
‘Aha! There speaks family feeling,’ Bazarov said calmly. 'I've noticed it's very firmly rooted in people. A man will give up everything, repudiate every prejudice, but to admit, for example, that his brother who steals other people's handkerchiefs is a thief is beyond his powers. It's really a case of my brother, mine--not whether he's a genius... Can that be right?' ” (129).
Through dialogue, we were able to learn more about the characters and their personalities. Although some of the characters’ descriptions helped us get to know about them, it was their speech that seemed to be more revealing, showing us who they really were.
Hello again! I would like to point out a very interesting rant by Bazarov that caught my eye.
ReplyDelete" 'In the first place, experience of life exists for that purpose. And in the second place, I assure you it's not worth studying people separately. All people are alike in their bodies as in their souls. Each one of us has a brain, a spleen, and lungs made in the same way and the so- called moral qualities are the same in all of us, the minor variations don't mean anything, One human example is sufficient to judge all the rest. People are like trees in a forest. No botanist is going to be concerned with each individual birch tree' " (pg. 84)
I feel like this whole quote goes against what society as a whole is pushing to believe in today: individuality. Bazarov believed that just like his frogs, we humans are identical. At some points it is true, we do all have the same body parts, but what Bazarov refers to as the "minor variations", that is what makes us different and unique. This quote jumped out to me just because I disagree with it on such a high level. Does anyone else have any specific examples of Bazarov quotes they disagree with?
Hey everyone! I just finished reading Fathers and Sons and it is my favorite book so far this summer. I found that the dialog was very exciting and intriguing. I also enjoyed the way that it never had a dull point and did not have a slow beginning.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Ivan Turgenev did a wonderful job at creating the relationships between all of the characters.
The part about this book that I enjoyed the most was that it was not focused on one person and we got to know each character in depth instead of just one.
What I disliked most about this book was that I became puzzled about all of the different Russian names that the characters had.
The literary device that I thought was most important to the book was conflict. The major conflict in the story was the generational gap between Nikolai and Pavel Petrovich and Arkady and Bazarov. However, there are also some sub-conflicts within the main conflict, such as the duel and tension between Pavel Petrovich and Bazarov, and the strain in Bazarov and Arkady's friendship.
ReplyDeleteThe main conflict is apparent throughout the book. Nikolai Petrovich tries to appear interested and engaged in the things that interest Arkady. However, he becomes discouraged and realizes that he really is a middle-aged man and Arkady is a young man when he overhears Arkady and Bazarov talking and Bazarov says that, "he's out of date, he's sung his swansong." Later that day, Arkady replaces a book that Nikolai Petrovich is enjoying with a modern up-to-date German book. Nikolai Petrovich discusses this with his brother Pavel Petrovich in the following conversation:
"And Nikolai Petrovich took out of the back pocket of his frock-coat the well-known work by Buchner in its ninth edition.
Pavel Petrovich turned it this way and that in his hand.
'Hmm!' he grunted. 'Arkady Nikolaevich is mindful of your education. Well, have you tried reading it?'
'I have.'
'So?'
'Either I'm stupid or it's all nonsense. It must be that I'm stupid.' "(page 47)
One conflict that was the result of the generational gap was the duel between Pavel Petrovich and Bazarov. I thought that this duel was completely unnecessary. Pavel Petrovich could have politely asked Bazarov to leave his brother's home! From the conversation that ensues, I got a very clear sense of the conflict that was between them:
" 'Your words relieve me of a certain sad necessity. I have decided to fight a duel with you'
Bazarov's eyes popped out of his head.
'With me?'
'Exactly, sir, with you.'
'Why for heaven's sake?'
'I could explain to you my reason,' began Pavel Petrovich, 'but I prefer not to speak of it. You, according to my tastes, are superfluous here. I cannot stand you, I hate you, and if that isn't enough ...' " (pages 149-150)
These characters obviously hated each other, because of their differences. The planned duel materializes this mutual hatred and shows how it is sad that these two grown men cannot solve their problems without resorting to uncivilized behavior.
The final conflict in the story was the strained friendship that developed between Bazarov and Arkady. The conflict started when Bazarov insulted Arkady's family. He says to Arkady at even the very beginning:
" 'How old's your father?'
'Forty-four.'
Bazarov suddenly burst out laughing.
'What're you laughing at?'
'For heaven's sake! A grown man of forty-four, a pater familias, living in the provinces and playing the cello!'
Bazarov went on laughing, but Arkady, despite the respect in which he held his teacher, on this occasion did not even smile." (page 44)
The friendship only becomes more strained as time goes on. The friends eventually split up, never to see each other again.
Conflict was very important to this story. As a character-driven story, the conflict presented itself as a motive for the actions that the characters made. Without this subtle yet powerful conflict, "Fathers and Sons" would have not been as nearly as interesting and insightful.
@SMcShea
ReplyDeleteI was also surprised when I was reading the book and found out that Pavel Petrovich was quite alive, and not dead (especially after the reference to him being "dead as a dodo"). I think that Turgenev decided to let Pavel Petrovich live because at the end he somewhat endears himself to the reader. We learn that all he wants is for Fenechka to love Nikolai Petrovich, and that for all of his strange and aristocratic behaviors, he really is not a bad person. He seems to grow up a lot after getting shot in the leg by Bazarov. He seems to realize that he has acted immaturely and improperly. By keeping Pavel Petrovich alive, Turgenev shows us that we should be feeling mercy toward Pavel, who is really just a confused middle-aged man.
I, too, was surprised by the death of Bazarov. It did not really seem to fit the story. However, it was mentioned how Bazarov had come to be bored and depressed in his own home. Also, to me, he seemed to be very accepting of death, and didn't even try to burn/disinfect the wound that he had accidentally inflicted on himself. He seemed to know and accept that he would be affected by disease very soon. In the end, I don't think Bazarov really had anything to live for. He criticized and condemned everything he knew. By having no one to believe in or love, he lost focus in life and death did not sadden him too much. Perhaps this is why Turgenev had Bazarov die? Does anyone have any other ideas?
I have a question regarding Sitnikov and Kukshina. I thought they were rather eccentric and they didn’t seem to be as developed or important as some of the other characters. Did Turgenev include these characters to represent something, or were they merely there to add some humor to the story?
ReplyDelete@thomasowen
ReplyDeleteI agree that the most unforgettable characters were Bazarov and Odintsova. Among the different stories of each of the characters in this book, I felt that Turgenev wanted to make Bazarov’s story the main focus. As we know, Bazarov fell in love with Odintsova. I think the main reasons why he fell in love with her were because she had such a strong presence and had interesting opinions and ideas of her own. This was a major part of Bazarov’s story because he changed when he fell for her. I believe that Turgenev made Odintsova such a memorable character because only a woman like her could make Bazarov, who had such a cold personality, fall in love. Does anyone else agree?
Unlike most of the other posters here, I didn't really care for this work. I felt it started off somewhat slowly, and didn't really pick up speed as it progressed. I specifically didn't like Bazarov at all. He seemed excessively rude to Arcady's family and to Arcady himself. While I can see the value in his outlook in terms of the sroty, I thought it went farther than necessary to advance the message of the work.
ReplyDeleteAs I got deeper into the book, I became slightly more interested, but not enough to put this work on my "read again" list
I think that the most important element in this book was characterization. The characters grow and change throughout the work, and the author does a good job of describing their evolution.
ReplyDeleteThis device helps to make the book significantly more "readable," although it was still difficult to enjoy....
I'm not quite finished reading, but I have enjoyed it thus far. I cannot say I like it as much as the two other books, but nonetheless, I think that it's a fairly good book.
ReplyDeleteI think that the novel is pretty straightforward, but I still had just one question about the work... Why is Bazarov sometimes referred to as Evgeny Vasilev and Fenechka as Fedosya Nikolavna? I suppose it really does not make a difference, but clarification would be helpful.
Personally, I would not be able to get along with Bazarov at all. Under no circumstances would I find it acceptable for a person to insult and criticize someone who allowed them to be a guest at their estate, and that's just what Bazarov does. I also am relatively "old-school" so to speak. I appreciate older customs and am not quick to ask for changes in anything. To name a few examples, I still go to Masses said in Latin on occasion, as Mass was always said in Latin, the official language of the Catholic Church, prior to the Second Vatican Council. Second, I would want my marriage to be a traditional Catholic ceremony as opposed to a modern, extravegant one. I also would not appreciate Bazarov's arrogance, selfishness, and lack of respect. How can a person who does not respect others attain respect? Humility, discipline, and gratitude are very important virtues to me, and I don't get along with those who do not practice these virtues.
ReplyDelete“…Nikolai Petrovich had strolled into the garden to meet them and, as he drew level with the arbour, he suddenly heard the sound of quick steps and young men’s voices. They were walking along on the other side of the arbour and could not see him.
ReplyDelete“You don’t know my father well enough,” Arkady said. Nikolai Petrovich kept in the background.
“Your father is a good-natured old boy,” Bazarov replied, “but he’s a back number. He’s a swan-song.”
Nikolai Petrovich pricked up his ears…Arkady made no reply. For a couple of minutes the “back number” stood motionless and then slowly trudged back home. (pg 51)
What bothers me about this passage is that Bazarov had so much sway over Arkady so that Arkady does not defend his father from being insulted. The worst part was Nikolai Petrovich was listening the whole time. Arkady later replaces Nikolai Petrovich’s reading material with something older and more sophisticated. This upsets Nikolai Petrovich, and a gap is formed between father and son. This demonstrates the unfortunate social discord and unrest between generations. Anyone agree?
@Michael Coyle
ReplyDeleteI agree the names that were used seemed interchangeable which was confusing to me too. I was also curious as to why Nikolai Petrovich was refered to by his full name while Arkady and Bazarov were called Arkady and Bazarov. Is this a generational thing or a status declaration?
One thing in this story that really struck me was the love that Bazarov’s parents had for their son. They loved him immensely and had such a devotion to him, even to the point of adoration and worship. They set high expectations for Bazarov, and always wanted the best for him. His father states, “…I not only simply worship him but I am proud of him, and my one ambition is that in time the following words should appear in his biography: ‘The son of a simple regimental doctor who, however, early recognized his ability and spared nothing to ensure his education…’ ” (pg. 124)
ReplyDeleteI think it is safe to assume that most parents want the best for their children. I know my parents push me and my brother to do our best, especially in our studies, and they love to see us succeed in whatever way possible. Although they do not worship us, they love us very much and do whatever they can to help us become better people. Like Vasily Ivanovich and Arina Vlasevna, my parents care so much about me and my brother that they often make sacrifices to see us succeed.
“It’ll be a comfort to you to know,” said Bazarov, “that nowadays in general we laugh at medicine and worship nobody.”
ReplyDelete“How d’you mean? You want to be a doctor, don’t you?”
“I do, but the one doesn’t prevent the other.”
This short exchange, only part of a whole conversation between Bazarov and his father, a retired army doctor, takes places on page 116. In reading this book I found only a few characters that truly drew in my attention, and Bazarov was no doubt one of them. Throughout the entire book Bazarov claims to believe in nothing and no one, yet still has hopes of becoming a doctor. To me, this seems strange, as becoming a doctor, I would think, requires faith in not only medicine, but in oneself. However, here, Bazarov scoffs at the idea that either of these beliefs are necessary to practice medicine. I know that in order to do something well, I must not only believe in myself, but also in what I am doing. I need to know that there is a purpose. The way Bazarov describes things, it seems there is no purpose. In my opinion, it seems it would be a great deal of work to be a doctor who does not believe in medicine. Does anyone else have ideas on the topic?
One of my favorite things about this book was the character and story of Arkady. At first, Arkady appeared to me to be a servant of sorts to Bazarov, as man who he claimed was his friend. However, to me it seemed Bazarov was more of a guide than a friend. In saying this I mean that in a friendship, ideas are shared between two people and both sides are taken into account. Between Arkady and Bazarov, only the ideas of Bazarov held any meaning. Arkady jeopardized his relationship with his family in following Bazarov’s ideas and philosophies. In the beginning, he seemed to me to follow whatever Bazarov said, no matter what the consequences. He practically worships Bazarov, and even leaves his home to follow his ‘friend’. Though at this time Arkady appeared to be a follower, I found that throughout the book he was a pleasant surprise. Arkady finally realizes the fault in his ways and deserts the negativity and skepticism of the life that Bazarov lead and went to find himself. He abandoned the childish need to have a mentor and began to do what he truly wanted, and even ended up married. He showed that he did have his own views, morals, and beliefs, even if it was not what Bazarov had taught him. By the end of the book, Arkady was no doubt my favorite character for his ability to realize that he could be his own person.
ReplyDeleteBazarov, in Fathers and Sons, was a very interesting character. To say I liked his character might be a stretch. However, I did enjoy reading about him. I found him to be arrogant, rude, blunt, and also very intelligent. Throughout the whole book it is quite clear that he has his views, and that nothing will change them. He arrives at the house of his friend Arkady and alienates the people who have let him live there. Then, when he finally goes to see his parents for the first time in years, I found his behavior to be cold and unloving. He does not tolerate pointless emotions and focuses only on himself. Often times, he speaks to his friend Arkady in a condescending manor, and even tells him that some of his ideas and views are worthless or stupid. Still, his character is interesting because of how others react to him. Some, like Arkady’s uncle, come to have a deep hatred for him. Others feel companionship, such as Anna Sergeevna or Fenechka. Though there were many this I disliked about Bazarov, I admired the fact that he never once changed his views based upon the feelings or reactions of others, some of which were very extreme. Despite the things I had against Bazarov, he was an exciting man who impacted other characters in different ways and made for a more fascinating read.
ReplyDelete@Megan R
ReplyDeleteIn regards to your earlier post, I agree that it was somewhat difficult to keep track of the various character's names. Ivan Turgenev has the rather annoying habit of switching between using the character's surname and first name, which greatly confused me at first. Fortunately, after a while this did not interfere with my enjoyment of the book. I found that writing down the full names of the characters whenever I came across them helped- eventually I didn't even need to refer to my sheet.
“But I detest lots of people. You’re a softy, you’re wishy-washy, there’s no point in you detesting anyone! You’re all shy and retiring, you couldn’t rely on yourself much…”
ReplyDelete“Whereas you,” Arkady interrupted, “you can rely on yourself, eh? You have a high opinion of yourself, do you?”
“When I meet a man who can stand up to me,” he said, emphasizing each word, “then I’ll change my opinion about myself…”
Fathers and Sons contains a ton of great dialogue, but this was one of my favorite exchanges. These two young men, supposedly friends, are finally having it out. Arkady is realizing that Bazarov is not this perfect man he once perceived him to be, and Bazarov is just proving this to Arkady. Once his mentor, Bazarov now shows his true thoughts about Arkady. Though he had been negative before, Arkady is finally noticing that Bazarov has high opinions of himself and often thinks he can do and say as he pleases, despite who it might hurt. This is Arkady’s first step towards breaking away from Bazarov and becoming his own man.
If Bazarov can say this to the man who is supposed to be his best friend, it is quite clear he has no reason to be kind to strangers. While Arkady has been quietly following and hanging onto every word Bazarov has said, Bazarov has thought so little of his friend. He basically tells him here that he is not strong enough, smart enough, or even brave enough to detest another. Bazarov appears in this dialogue, at least to me, to be a miserable and condescending person. It seems that in his life, he is constantly seeking that one person who will get the better of him; that person who can beat him out in intelligence, confidence, and maybe even arrogance. Until he does so, he will never truly be happy. It seemed fitting to me that he should die trying to test out his skills. His life was not lived to be in the presence of others, but rather to seek intelligence and practice his hand at any task he deemed worthy.
Fathers and Sons was genuinely an enjoyable book to read. It did not have the confusing language of our previous 2 summer reading books, and had a curiously compelling plot. I found myself really getting involved with the characters- when Bazarov was about to have the duel with Pavel, I was really anxious for both the characters, whose personalities and similar natures made them my favorite characters in the book. Bazarov and Pavel are nearly identical in personality and opposite in views, making it fun to see them clash whenever they happen to meet. Pavel may be the one who is at first scorned by the reader and put aside, but I cannot help pitying this man, who has been through so much and now has to see the way of life he has become used come crashing down, to be replaced by the ideas of the younger generation. Bazarov, representing these ideas of nihilism, seems to Pavel to be the perfect person to attack.
ReplyDelete@SMcShea
ReplyDeleteI agree that the love Bazarov's parents displayed was very interesting. It struck me as odd that they could be the parents of a son who had trouble giving and accepting emotion. The thing I found most interesting was the lack of affection Bazarov displayed towards his parents. It may have been he felt it was ridiculous to do so, but it seemed to hurt his mother greatly that she had to restrain herself so as not to anger her son.
I also agree that they set high goals for their son, almost seeming to have expectations that they wanted him to meet. They knew he had a strong mind, which was only confirmed when Arkady told them so. I feel as though these parents had such strong love for a son who may or may not have truly appreciated it.
Fathers and Sons focuses on the differences between generations regarding political views and self discovery. The conflicts, though trying for each character personally, are between individuals involving ideas such as what one should or should not believe in, as well as problems in everyday life. Rather than the, suspense, mystery, murder, and life or death problems of Dickens's novel, instead, Fathers and Sons is more philosophical, compares new ideas to the old, and has deeper character development that includes not just their actions but their thoughts and views as well. The background of the characters helps the reader feel much more involved in the story, as if they can relate to each person's problems.
ReplyDeleteFathers and Sons is set in a time when Russia is beginning to slowly emerge from isolationism and embrace western civilization with new ideas such as nihilism, which would eventually lead to communism. The religious principles and beliefs of the older generations were being slowly forgotten and reformed as people such as Bazarov proposed new ideas. The Russian Revolution and the Russian Civil War would not occur for more than fifty years but the groundwork was being laid and the threat began to loom. Though I prefer a more fast passed novel with clear heroes and villains that take place in the heat of the fight, Fathers and Sons has a hidden enemy in the naive views of the young. It is intellectually provocative and forces the reader to consider each characters viewpoints and opinions.
Unlike A Tale of Two Cities where destruction and violence jump off the page, Fathers and Sons introduces a quieter force brewing just beneath the surface; waiting to explode, the proverbial calm before the storm.
Ivan Turgenev provides detailed images that are woven into the story and flow naturally within the text. The imagery in Fathers and Sons balances perfectly between too many details and not enough to give a clear image. Turgenev allows the reader to interpret the words in different ways, similar to at baseball game when binoculars are passed between two people and the knob is adjusted by each person for the image to come into focus; though the image is the same, the viewpoint varies depending on the preference of each person. Turgenev has a way of painting beautiful pictures through words but leaving enough unsaid so readers have a chance to draw some of the picture themselves.
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 11 he writes, "Evening was already approaching; the sun was hidden behind small aspen wood which lay a quarter mile from the garden: the shadow from it stretched endlessly across the motionless fields [...] The sun's rays shot through the wood from the far side and penetrating into its depths, suffused the trunks of the aspen with such a warm light that they acquired the appearance of pines, while their foliage became almost pine-blue, and above the wood there rose the coldly pale blue sky, slightly flushed by the sunset." This phrase carefully crafts an image in the reader's mind but still allows them to decide from what angle they see the scene. Imagery was not the first thought that came to my mind when I originally thought of Fathers and Sons, but as I paid more attention to descriptions throughout the novel it became more apparent that it is one of the most important parts.
@ Michael Coyle
ReplyDeleteAs I have said in previous posts, I, too, found Bazarov to be rude. Additionally, I also would not be able to get along with him. Though some of the characters do, I would find him rude and arrogant, two qualities I definitely avoid when seeking out a friend. Though he is intelligent, that is no excuse for how he acted towards hosts, friends, and family. He did what he wanted, when he wanted, not caring to think about those around him who would be affected.
Most teenagers seek their independence and leave home at the first chance. They strike out into the world to discover new ideas, opportunities, and find independence. They travel to far-flung cities and take diverse jobs only to realize eventually, when they are older, that they encountered the same problems and discovered the same ideas as their parents did before them. Young adults want to be free and find their own way. They disregard the hints and advice provided by their parents in order to learn the lesson for themselves, often the hard way. Both Bazarov and Arkady left home, as young naive men in their twenties. When they came home, they argued with their fathers' principles of religion and bragged of their own new belief in nihilism, the idea of not believing in anything such as marriage, government, or nature. As the two grew older and encountered the world on their own, both broke their beliefs and fell in love. Arkady soon abandoned the idea of nihilism and married, admitting to the love of nature, music, and art, which he had previously shunned. He went home to his father with his new wife and embraced the principles his father believed in and he had grown up with. Bazarov left home out of boredom, fell in love, was rejected, and eventually returned home. Though he travelled extensively to discover his true self, Bazarov ended up as the town doctor in his home town exactly as his father had done. Even today young adults go to college and try to follow their dreams somewhere away from home. They question the status quo and imagine a different world. Most of the time they end up getting married and raising their children the same way their parents raised them, even though they fought against it for so long. Maybe it's time we just listen to our parents; then again, maybe not.
ReplyDelete"Bazarov stood with his back to her. 'Then you should know that I love you, stupidly, madly[...] 'You have not understood me,' she wispered in huried alarm. It seemed that had he taken another step she would have screamed...Bazarov bit his lips and left the room." (pg 103)
ReplyDeleteIn this scene Bazarov declares his love for Odintsova and is rejected by her. The despair and broken heart he is left with as a result, eventually spells about his doom. Soon after he realizes she does not love him, Bazarov flees Odintsova's home and stays at Marino with Arkady's father and uncle. There he works feverishly to try and leave the painful memory behind. When Bazarov is forced to leave Marino because of a number of errors and wrong decisions, he returns home. He works with his father as the town doctor and gets a disease that soon kills him. The last months of Bazarov's short life were lived in sadness and longing because of a women that he could not have, similar to the ending of A Tale of Two Cities when Sydney Carton dies for Lucie Manette. Bazarov's life may have been spared if only Odintsova had found a way to love him and the tragic ending of the novel could have taken a completely different course.
Why did Arkady fall in love with Odintsova? Arkady and Odintsova were very different people, with different beliefs and outlooks on life. The reason Bazarov and Odintsova were so attracted and interested in each other was because of their similarities. Arkady, though he denied it at the beginning, enjoyed music, art, and nature. He ultimately separated himself from the idea of nihilism, and his friendship with Bazarov, in order to freely enjoy them. So why did he love a women with opposite views and principles? Eventually Arkady truly fell in love with Katya because of the qualities her sister lacked. Was the love he supposedly felt for Odintsova out of a naive desire for beauty?
ReplyDelete@ Caroline Mea
ReplyDelete"I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on where Bazarov's nihilism and rather pessimistic attitude comes from. I got the impression that his parents were very religious, traditional and joyous people: the exact opposite of Bazarov. I do believe that he learned about nihilism during his studies in St. Petersburg, but I believe there is something more to Bazarov's negative personality than just nihilism. Bazarov was a character, that, for me, was hard to understand. Does anyone have any ideas on why Bazarov was always so negative?"
Maybe Bazarov's religious, sheltered childhood, under the guidance of his parents, is what led him to create his own ideas and discover his own personal outlook on life. Because of his parent's orthodox values, Bazarov searched for a way to be both original and the opposite of them. Young adults go through rebellious stages. Nihilism allowed him to exercise his individuality and separate himself from the normal, boring place he grew up. Contrary to his parents, Bazarov became pessimistic and believed in nothing, souring his personality and making him a disliked character.
"Oh, Anna Sergeevna, let's start by speaking the truth. It's the end for me. I've been run over. And it turns out it's pointless to think about the future. Death may be an old joke, but for each of us it's as new as ever. So far I've faced up to it...but unconsciousness is on its way and then-phut!' (He feebly waved his hand). 'Well, what've got to tell you is...I loved you! That didn't have any meaning then and it's got even less now. Love is just a form of being and now my own form is already disintegrating. I'll say rather-what a wonderful person you are! And now here you are standing in front of me looking so beautiful..." (Turgenev 195)
ReplyDeleteIn this passage Barzarov is lying sick in bed, very close to death, talking to Anna Sergeevna. This passage is important because Bazarov shows that he had felt love for Anna. As a nihilist, he says he doesn;t believe in anything. If someone else were to say what he said, Bazarov would have called it romanticism and made fun of it. Bazraov tells Anna she is a wonderful person and admits his feelings for her. However, only a few moments later, Bazarov falls unconscious and dies.
@Megan R
ReplyDeleteI agree That even though Bazarov was smart, he was rude, selfish, and only thought about himself. His parents clearly loved him very much and showed no respect or love back to them. He only cared how things afeected, helped, or hurt himself
@ Lgant
ReplyDeleteI agree that Bazarov wanted to be different and independent of his parents in his beliefs. But why does this mean he has to be rude and arrogant? If his parents were so loving i feel even if Bazarov's beliefs were different he wouldn't be such a disliked or mean character. Even though his parents may have been too loving(if thats possible) or 'over-protective', i do not think that it was any excuse to be the way he was.
@Lgant
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed reading your posts! In response to one of your first posts, I had very similar ideas. I can connect to this book and the experience you were describing. We had a good family friend who went through a similar experience to Bazarov. I think, like Arkady and Bazarov, we should all be open to new ideas but we should also keep our parents opinions in mind as well and not throw everything we learned out the door. In response to another one of your other posts I believe Arkady liked Odintsova for so long because she was Bazarov's. Arkady admired and agreed with Bazarov's opinion on almost any subject. I wonder if he had the same taste in girls!
@CPoblete
ReplyDeleteI think that Sitnikov and Kukshina were added to make the story more realistic. By adding more characters for support the story is made more believable and you get a better sense of the time era by viewing different people.
Hello again! I just wanted to say that I love reading all of your comments almost as much as the book; thank you for giving me a different perspective on the characters and setting.
ReplyDeleteOne character that I just couldn't wrap my head around was Odintsova. It wasn't that I just didn't like her (which is true) it was that I didn't understand her. For me, even gauging her feelings towards other characters was a challenge. I can't tell if she is prideful or bored, mean or passive. Will someone please provide me with some insight on this perplexing woman?
@Lgant, @LucyS.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your assessment of Arkady's "love" for Odintsova. I think it was a schoolboy's crush on a woman who was loved by Bazarov, a man that Arkady worshipped. I'm glad he finally came to his senses and went for the kinder sister, Katya.
"Arkady spoke about the latest news from Petersburg, but he was conscious of being a bit awkward, with that awkwardness which usually overcomes a youth when he has just stopped being a child and has come back to a place where they are accustomed to regard and treat him as a child. He made his sentences quite unnecessarily long, avoided the word "Daddy," and even sometimes replaced it by the word "Father," mumbled between his teeth; with exaggerated carelessness he poured into his glass far more wine than he really wanted and drank it all." (pg. 24)
ReplyDeleteThat passage took place during supper on same day that Arkady arrived back to his home. I believe that it demonstrates a classic attitude of anyone who grows older (mentally and physically) since the last time they see someone. Arkady had just gotten back from what apparently was his first year at university without his father being with him. I can relate to Arkady in this situation; I always feel that I need to act very mature and sophisticated ("grown-up) whenever I go on my yearly visit to see my relatives. Little passages like these really helped me to connect with most of the characters.
I know I said this before, but I can relate to this book better than I can relate to any of the others. For instance, it seems to me that everyone in Fathers and Sons argues with one another as a means of entertainment. This is exactly like my dad's side of the family. Every time we have a family reunion, my dad's sisters all get together and have a huge political arguments, all very loudly stating their opinions, which they all strongly believe. This is just like Bazarov and Pavel arguing while they were staying together, it seemed that they would get together just to debate with each other.
ReplyDelete(P. 123) "I must tell you I... I simply worship my son... I do not dare show my feelings in his presence, because he doesn't like that kind of thing. He is opposed to all outpouring of emotion. Many even condemn him for such severity of character and see in it a sign of arrogance and lack of feeling. But you can't apply ordinary rules to people like him, can you?"
ReplyDeleteThe above quote explained to me exactly why Bazarov is the way he is. He is a self absorbed and arrogant man who in his own eyes can do no wrong, and his parents support that illusion. This explains why he is a nihilist to me, he sees no authority because he is the authority in his mind. The only thing he needs to believe in is himself and how he is 'perfect'. I think that the author did an amazing job explaining Bazarov's character in this passage.
Characterization is by far the most important element of Fathers and Sons. The entire story is about the different beliefs of two generations and trying to bridge the gap between them. For instance, when Bazarov and Pavel fight and Arkady tries to make peace between them, we find that he continually attempts to smooth things over by implying that the one way of thought is not superior to the other. Another way characterization shows itself is in the similarities of Pavel and Bazarov. Even though the two can not seem to agree on anything the other says, they are alike in the sense that they both are both deeply rooted in their ideals and refuse to believe that they could be wrong.
ReplyDelete@ JP
ReplyDeleteI love the quote you used, I can connect to it as well. I think that my first year of highschool was a growth opportunity, just like Arkady's. I have become much more independent since coming to Bishop Ireton and I am less reliant on my parents which is the natural progression of any growth experience. While there still remains a connection between my parents and I, our relationship has become more respectful in many ways.
Hello Everyone!
ReplyDeleteWhat a bitter-sweet book Fathers and Sons is. I loved the continuing theme that was “The conflict between different generations.” This book kept me interested because of the many plot twists such as Bazarov dying from an infection and Bazarov shooting Pavel in the leg after Pavel missed him. I also enjoyed the ongoing “romantic” relationships between Bazarov and Odintsova, Nikolai and Fenichka, and Lokteva and Nikolaevich. The twist between these characters also kept the story interesting for me. I loved how the author kept us guessing for a while who was going to be with who. Did anyone else enjoy these same characteristics of the book?
As I have said about the other two books we have read, I really did not find much to complain about in this book. Of course, I did not enjoy the part where Bazarov died and he did not marry Odintsova. I was really hoping for the two of them to get married although this type of conflict in their relationship kept me interested in the book. Also, this conflict did not make me think less of the book but it was quite sad. Does anyone else feel the same way? Also, the way Bazarov’s parents are left sad and lonely in the end was quite sad. Although this was sad, Bazarov understood that these types of happenings would be part of his fate because he was a Nihilist, or new man. We probably would have run into other problems if he had not died of an infection because his ideals were threatening to society and everything that the previous generation had worked so hard to start including fundamentals and such.
ReplyDeleteA literary device I found important was conflict. The conflict between the two generations at hand was what kept the book moving forward. It was the use of science to prove things or disprove the ideals that were long accepted by the older generation that brought Bazarov in conflict with Pavel. Also, the inner conflict which Nikolaevich had in following Bazarov and his ideals was instrumental in the book. Nikolaevich did not know in the beginning whether to follow what he himself liked or to remain indifferent as Bazarov did. Nikolaevich made up his mind when he fell in love with Lokteva. He did not wish to remain indifferent as Bazarov did and started to form his own opinions and express them, which he had not done before. These conflicts molded most of the story.
ReplyDeleteA connection to the story Fathers and Sons that I have is to Nikolaevich. He has a hard time making up his mind what he wants to do with his life. He wishes to either remain with Bazarov or find a different life style. He knows that his own feelings are not quite the same as Bazarov’s and that is why they had much conflict in expressing themselves to each other. He is confused a bit and has to make a decision. I have felt this way in deciding what is it exactly that I want to do with my life. Questions pop up in my head like where do I want to go to college or what do I want to be when I grow up. I do not have to make the same decisions as Nikolaevich because at the time he is 22 and is an adult while I am still a teenager. Nonetheless, the feeling of confusion does come upon me as it probably did come upon Nikolaevich in making his decision.
ReplyDeleteA passage from the book that I find important is, “There’s nothing for it, Vasya! Our son’s cut off from us. He’s a falcon, like a falcon he wanted to come here and he flew here, then he wanted away and he flew away. But you and I, we’re just a couple of old mushrooms, we are, stuck in the hollow of a tree, sitting side by side and never moving. Except that I’ll always remain the same for you for ever and ever, just as you will for me” (Page 136). I think this was a wonderful passage when I read it. I loved how beautiful it was and it made me think how important it is to marry someone you love. This woman helped cheer up her husband when he needed it the most and that is the way a husband and wife should treat each other. This passage really hit home to me that marriage is forever and that it is important for you that person you marry is also your best friend. What a beautiful passage this was. It is important to me because during this time in the book Bazarov is leaving his mom and dad unexpectedly which upset them very much. In this time of sadness Arina comforts her husband and tells him that they will always be there for each other.
ReplyDelete@Lgant
ReplyDeleteI think that the reason that Arkady fell in love with Odintsova was because opposites attract. They both lack the feelings that the other has; therefore, Arkady fills in the personality voids in Odintsova and Odintsova fills in the personality voids that Arkady has in relation to each others personal opinions. People usually do not fall in love with someone who is just like them because there is no mystery in it. The other person usually has something that they do not have and so they become interested in that person. I believe that is why the love between Bazarov and Odintsova does not last and Odintsova starts to become interested in Arkady.
@Megan R
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is difficult to keep track of the characters names but what helped me was the key in the back of the book on page 203. I constantly kept referring to it to make sure that the character that I was reading about was who I thought it was. This was a great resource for me and so now before I start to read a book I read through the beginning pages and the pages after the book has ended. I usually find pretty valuable information.
I think the most important passage in Fathers and Sons is on pages 243-244.
ReplyDelete"In one of the far corners of Russia stands a small village graveyard. Like most of our graveyards it looks dismal: weeds have long overgrown the ditches round it, the drab wooden crosses sag and rot beneath their once freshly painted gables; the tombstones are all askew, as though someone were pushing them from below; two or three scanty fir trees barely afford some meagre shade; sheep wander at will over the graves.... But in their midst stands a grave untouched by any human being, untrampled by any animal: only the birds at dawn perch and sing on it. An iron railing fences it in; two fir trees have been planted there, one at each end; in that grave Eugene Bazarov lies buried. Often from a nearby village a tottering old couple, man and wife, make their way here. Supporting each other, they walk with heavy steps; on reaching the railing, they fall down upon their knees, and long and bitterly they weep, and long and yearningly they gaze at the mute tombstone beneath which their son is lying; exchanging a brief word, they brush the dust from the stone, set a branch of a fir tree right, and then resume their prayers, unable to tear themselves away from this spot where they feel themselves so close to their son and their memories of him.... Can it be that their prayers, their tears, will remain unanswered? Can it be that love, sacred and devoted love, is not omnipotent? Oh, No! However passionate, sinful and rebellious the heart wrapped away in that grave, the flowers that blossom there peep at us tranquilly with innocent eyes: they speak to us not only of all-embracing peace, of the vast repose of "indifferent" nature; they tell us also of everlasting reconciliation and life without end....
I think this was a beautiful closing to the book. Ivan Turgenev evokes an image that makes your own heart break. I think it is important because it really is a closing, not only to the book but life itself. Death frees your soul from your mortal body and (hopefully) our souls head to be in heaven with God. I think it also shows that although we know that our loved ones are in a better place, we still feel a great loss that takes a long time to come to terms with. I know when my grandpa died, I had a really hard time with it even though he had been "gone" (he had Alzheimer's and Parkinson's) for years. However, I have come to realize that he is in a better place and although I do miss him, I no longer cry when the songs that were sung at his funeral are played. My mother, however, has not exactly recovered. She has times where she gets hit with a memory that has her sobbing in moments. We still visit his grave any chance we get.
This passage made me see the emotions portrayed and I felt like I was there mourning with them.
Although I didn't enjoy the book much, I have to say that Turgenev did a fantastic job at bringing the book to a close.
Despite the fact that I didn’t really enjoy the book itself, I did like Turgenev’s style of writing a lot.
ReplyDeleteIt flowed very well and encouraged you to keep reading. I think that is really the only reason I read the book in one sitting. I didn’t want to put it down even though I didn’t “like” reading it. I honestly found the book hard to enjoy because I found the characters somewhat silly and rude.
Arcady was under Bazarov’s influence for a while and that really bothered me. I think it was because I have seen followers of people who think their friend is some super human who knows everything. This type of person drives me nuts, to say the least.
I also had trouble with Bazarov’s complete disrespect toward his elders. Paul Petrovich, although a textbook example of a self-assured aristocrat, deserved at least common courtesy.
I have to ask…
ReplyDeleteDid anyone try and think about what Bazarov would have done with his life if he hadn’t contracted Typhus?
I thought he might continue on working with his father for a while but eventually get bored and move on to new things, maybe traveling to Germany, for example.
@Lucy S. and thomasowen
ReplyDeleteI’d also like to address another similarity between Pavel and Bazarov. The two women whom they loved were similar in many ways. Princess R. and Odintsova are impenetrable women who didn’t really have true affection for their admirers. The rejection from both women had imprisoned the two male lovers in their own world. Pavel and Bazarov are exactly the opposite of each other and different in many aspects, but share the same fate when it comes to their unrequited love story.
@Lucy S.
ReplyDeleteThere is another comment I wish to add to Bazarov’s quote you have mentioned. What Bazarov failed to see about his analogy was that botanists would love to study, compare, and contrast the diverse trees in the forest, like birch, elm, oak, pine, etc. Comparing all people to every birch tree is a narrow-minded, simplistic way of thinking. He simply dismisses the uniqueness of each individual. Bazarov may be an intelligent individual; however, his nihilistic ways of thinking has resulted into an incongruence of his actions and philosophy.
“ ‘Oh, my dear good friend!’ exclaimed Bazarov. ‘The things you say! You see what I’m doing – there’s an empty space in my trunk and I’m stuffing hay into it. It’s the same with the luggage of our own lives. It doesn’t matter what you fill it with so long as there’s no empty space‘ ” (180).
I have a different connotation for this passage. Bazarov is saying that it doesn’t matter what you do with your life – whether it’s a pleasant or unpleasant life – you just have to “fill the suitcase.” It totally ignores the very purpose of one’s existence. For instance, when the doctor says you only have 10 days to live, a nihilist man like Bazarov would “fill his suitcase” by sitting in a chair doing nothing but waiting to die; whereas, another individual would “fill his suitcase” with hope and prayers for divine intervention, a positive attitude of worth fighting for until the end, and a meaningful plan of living the remaining days left. Life is a gift from God. We should spend every single day of our life wisely. As the saying goes, “If life gives you lemons, you make lemonade.”
@CPoblete
ReplyDeleteI think the chapters in which Sitnikov and Kukshina appear, they simply act as transitional characters. They also introduce important characters in this novel, including Katya and, especially, Madame Odintsova.
@Michael Coyle, Duke Roach
ReplyDeleteI was also confused by the names in this novel. So, I did some research on it. It turns out that Russians have three names and can be called by one or a combination of these names. The first name is the personal name. The middle name is called the patronymic. A patronymic is the personal name of the individual’s father, along with the ending “-vich” (“son of") for boys and “-vna” (“daughter of”) for girls. Lastly, the third is the surname. For example: Evgeny Vasilevich Bazarov. Evgeny is the personal name; Vasilevich is the patronymic (“Vasile” is Bazarov’s father’s personal name and “-vich” means “son of.” Thus, “Vasilevich” means “son of Vasile”); and Bazarov is the surname. However, sometimes the names are slightly changed to make them easier to pronounce.
Turgenev's Fathers and Sons is a straightforward novel that tackles the inherent and inevitable problem of the so-called generational gap conflict between the generations of yesterday, present, and the future. For the reader to have better understanding of the story, the author has to create dynamic and interactive dialogues between the dominant characters. The fictional characters are chosen from a broad range of background as to type of personality, social role and status, and philosophical beliefs. All throughout the novel is a back-and-forth contrast and comparison dialogue under different situations and settings between the dominant characters. In this dialogue, we learned more about the characters as to their personality and philosophy in life. Additionally, Turgenev has to employ a traditionally nineteen-century technique of interrupting the dialogue abruptly in order to give the reader elaborate background information about his fictional characters. Furthermore, the author’s background like born to an aristocratic family, spent most of his childhood in the family estate, started to amass knowledge under the instructions of tutors, studied at the prestigious University of Moscow, traveled to most parts of Europe and Russia, worked for the Russian civil service, has tremendously influenced the way he wrote his novel and may have even incorporated his own past experience in developing the plot of the story. After critically analyzing the individual chapters, I do have some observations, questions, and comments. First, aside from the dominant characters like Bazarov, Arkady and their respective parents, Odintsova and Katya, Pavel, Fenechka, I don’t see the relevance as to the role played by the following characters: Kukshina, Kolyazin, Porfiry Patonovitch, Dunyasha, and Timofeich and Anfisushka. Second, I can also sense a seemingly “feminist” view points of Turgenev by the dominant role-play and influence exerted by the women over the men. As if women were a “force” behind the successes and failures of men, do you agree or disagree? What was really the reason why Pavel challenged Bazarov for a duel – was it to defend his brother’s honor or because of extreme jealousy of Bazarov kissing the woman he secretly admired? Did Katya really love Arkady?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe literary device that I found important to Fathers and Sons was its dialogue. I found the dialogue so important to this story. It tells us about the characters and their outlooks, the area, the time period and an insight of it.
ReplyDeleteThe connection that I found in Fathers and Sons was when Nikolai was waiting for Arkady to arrive. Nikolai was anxious and excited to see his son after such a long period of time. His waiting reminded me of waiting for family to arrive for holidays after I have not seen them for a while.
“Can their prayers and their tears be fruitless? Can love, sacred, devoted love, not be all-powerful? Oh, no! No matter how passionate, sinning, rebellious is the heart hidden in the grave, the flowers growing on it look at as serenely with their innocent faces; they speak to us not only of that eternal peace, of that great peace of ‘impassive’ nature; they speak to us also of eternal reconciliation and of life everlasting…” (201)
ReplyDeleteThis is one of my favorite passages from Fathers and Sons. It shows that death is inevitable to everyone. It also makes the reader feel that Barazov is in heaven, therefore to not be upset that he had died. I think that Turgenev’s work in Fathers and Sons was great and it had a wonderful ending.
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ReplyDelete@ABaniqued
ReplyDeleteI also questioned the reason behind Pavel and Barazov’s duel. Personally, I think that Pavel would have started the duel because of his brother but his jealousy pushed him over the edge to actually fight. This fight also made me wonder-- why were they not fond of each other in the beginning of the story when they first met?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThere were aspects of the book that I enjoyed and several that I weren't too keen on, but overall, I thought the book was well written and interesting.
ReplyDeleteI found it funny how the younger generation of Russians were much like the youth of America today and how the older generation reminded me of a typical 50 to 60-year-old man in America today.
Bazarov (part of the younger generation) was disrespectful, independent, and prideful. Many young adults seem to possess these same traits today. They think they know more than their elders, they don't see why they should respect their elders, they want to accomplish things on their own, they want to do everything their way, and they get embarrassed or angry when anyone tries to correct them. Sound like anyone you might know? Is that how your act at times?
Pavel (part of the older generation) was a no nonsense, law-abiding veteran. He emphasizes the importance of morals, and he appreciates traditional Russian customs. This description probably reminds many young people today of their grandfather... a patriotic, religious, and old-fashioned military man.
The similarities between Bazarov and today's teenagers and the similarities between Pavel and today's older gentlemen were something I could easily relate to.
@ABaniqued
ReplyDeleteTo answer those last two questions:
1. Bazarov assumes that Pavel loves Fenechka when he challenges him to a duel. However, in actuality, I think that Pavel was distraught at the idea of Bazarov and Fenechka having a relationship and falling in love because he knew it would break Nikolai's heart. He is fighting for his brother's sake. I think this is proven later on when Pavel sincerely asks Fenechka if she loves Nikolai. After she says that she does, Pavel is overjoyed and then tells Nikolai that he should marry her. Pavel did not challenge Bazarov for selfish reasons; he did it because he viewed Bazarov as a threat to Nikolai's happiness/relationship with Fenechka.
2. I think Katya did love Arkady. I suppose she might not have had a passionate yearning for him, but she did in the least think of him as a kind man and a loyal companion. More than likely though, she did love him deeply and had a desire to marry him. After all, she is overjoyed when he proposes to her, and she even starts crying.
Some additional questions I had about the book were:
ReplyDeleteWhy does Arkady gradually seem to become more and more a romantic as the story progresses? Is it because he never really wanted to be a nihilist? Did he feel as though he had to be a nihilist in order to be Bazarov's friend? Or did he just naturally start to appreciate nature and art as time passed?
Why is Odintsova's aunt, "the Princess", so irritable all the time?
Why did Pavel not want Nikolai to marry Fenechka? Why was it significantly more embarrassing for a landowner like Nikolai to marry Fenechka (a lower class girl) than it was to merely have an affair with her?
As I mentioned before, I like the way the characters were portrayed. I thought the characters and the tension between some of them (Pavel and Bazarov, Pavel and Fenechka, Bazarov and essentially everyone who didn't agree with him) were very believable. I also thought the theme of showing how people change as the times change was simple, yet interesting and captivating. Finally, I did like the ending as well. The story ended like many do... it was sad yet hopeful. Aside from Bazarov, all the central characters go on to live happily, and even though Bazarov's parents mourn at his loss, they are comforted by the flowers growing by his grave. They feel that it's a sign of their beloved son's peace, joy, and eternal life.
ReplyDeleteIt cant beat the ending to A Tale of Two Cities, but I did like the conclusion.
One thing I didn't particularly like about the book was the way the friendship between Arkady and Bazarov seemed to suddenly fall apart. They seemed to get along well, and they generally share the same beliefs throughout the first part of the book. However, in chapter 21, after Bazarov accuses Arkady of being a romantic like his "idiot" uncle, Pavel. Later, after they return to the Marino, Arkady is bored around Bazarov and decides to return to Odintsova's estate. Bazarov then goes to see Arkady one last time, says his farewell, and leaves him forever. It seemed like they were great companions, but suddenly their friendship comes to an abrupt halt. They go from having much in common to very little in seemingly no time at all.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, as I previously mentioned, I just don't like the character Bazarov himself. I don't like his excessive pride and selfishness. The fact that he doesn't respect God, his laws, or his creation (nature) is also a reason to dislike him. Finally, he is always looking for a fight. He has a ruthless determination to prove others wrong and prove himself right.
Nonetheless, he wasn't supposed to a particularly likable character, so I credit Turgenev's ability to form a character like him.
@MSchaller
ReplyDeleteIn regard to your question about what Bazarov would have done with his life had it been longer: I don't see why he would have wanted to stop working with his father entirely. He seemed to like the medical field. It's plausible that he might have stopped working with his father after a while, but I don't think he would have given up medicine all together. I think he might have gone on to become a surgeon, for he was interested in the human body, anatomy, and medicine. He could have also gone on to become a zoologist or botanist maybe, for he knew a lot about plants and animals as well.
" 'But now I'm telling you again in farewell... because there's no point in pretending: We're saying goodbye forever and you know it yourself... You've behaved sensibly. You're not made for the bitter, sour-tasting, rootless life of people like me. You haven't got the daring, you haven't got the anger, all you've got is youthful courage and youthful fervour... You, for example, won't fight-and yet you think you're fine chaps-but people like us, we want to fight... You're a marvelous fellow, but you're still just a little softy liberal gent.' " (180-181).
ReplyDeleteIn this passage, Bazarov says goodbye to his friend, Arkady, forever. Much of the book revolved around how much people change from generation to generation, but I think this passage shows how much a person's life can seem to change in an instant. They are good friends, but as soon as Arkady shows signs of romanticism and proves not to be nihilistic as him, Bazarov decides that they must leave one another forever.
Bazarov spent his life trying to separate himself from others. He did not show respect for anyone but himself, and he thought these nihilistic views would make him happy, but it made him lonely and sad. Since he neither loved nor respected anyone, nobody seemed to love him back. Arkady wasn't as nihilistic as him, so he left him for good... and found himself with nobody who he could call a friend.
I got the sense that Bazarov gained what he always wanted, but lost all that could make him truly happy.
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ReplyDeleteOther classmates mentioned this before, but I think that characterization is the most important literary device featured in the novel. In my opinion, Turgenev does an especially outstanding job of describing Arkady. Not much is actually written specifically about Arkady's character. Rather, the reader is able to understand him by his actions more so than any other character in the book. Arkady is loyal to Bazarov and defends his nihilistic ideals throughout the book. However, at various times, Arkady proves to have a balance of romanticism and nihilism. For example, in chapter 16, Katya is playing a piece by Mozart. Arkady admits to liking the piece very much and also admits to thinking that Katya is pretty. He says, "The girl doesn't play at all badly and she's not bad-looking either."
ReplyDeleteThen in chapter 21, he poetically compares a falling maple leaf to a floating butterfly. So at times he displays a dislike for authority and acts like a rebellious young kid, but at other times he shows an admiration for art, beauty, and traditional Russian values.
I believe Turgenev did a great job of characterizing Bazarov, Pavel, and Katya as well. However, his way of portraying Arkady really sticks out to me.
The interaction among you is getting much better. I would have liked to have seen a little more focus on what is going on historically in Russia. What is Turgenev saying historically about 19th century Russia? Good comments pertaining to characterization and conflict.
ReplyDelete